Curse

ALF71BE · May 02, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Yes yes, I know [Jagged Bones] is great and all, but I don't have access to it, haven't gotten so far in NF, and tbh any kind of PvP bores me after a couple matches, adding the fact I want to cap it with my main before anything. So I was thinking of a good MM build without that skill, but really can't think of the elite to use, and at most I could think of:

SoLS
BotM
Animate Shambling Horror
Animate Bone Horror

Was thinking in either changing to /E for Wards and energy management, or /Mo for Heal Area or Aegis, but really need help in the rest.

Any information you can provide is appreciated.

Thanks.

Edit: It's for use on a hero untill I get Jagged Bones.

zling · May 02, 2008, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Jagged Bones is only good for Minion Bomber builds. for pure Minion Masters Aura of the Lich is your best bet. if you wanna milk more damage out of your minions on the expense of your own health than Order of Underneath will be the elite of choice.
as for your minions, Shambling Horrors are somewhat decent for Minion Bombers, for Minion Masters it's Fiends+Vampric Horrors...
BotM and SoLS are pretty much staple for MM builds.
the extra slots could go to other Death Magic goodies or secondary. heck you could go N/Rt with 12+1+3 Death Magic, 9+1 Soul Reaping 9 Channeling for Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage. you pretty much have 2-3 free slots to use whatever you want on. if you dont bring a res make that another free slot.
PvE only spells also work nicely...

Queen Undertaker · May 02, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

MM is what I DO hehe

ok, I went all way through NF with my rit JUST TO GET JB, weekend before i got it, they nerfed it. what like every 20 seconds or something, so, worthless, maybe echo it, but I have NEVER used it on ANY MM build.

for heros I use aura of the lich, a proficies elite from fire islands.
they are very hard to kill with that and infusse condtion. IC is a MUST for any MM build IMO. all condtions go to pets. keep 10 pets ur good and safe.

Flesh Golem, has its place, like where there is NO bodies. but I dont use it anywhere now.

Order of undeath is a un one, can get you in trouble so make sure you carry with IC, Dark Bond, to lose half or is it 75% damage to pets ? I in AB will run DB, ICa and Aura of Lich, is extramly hard to kill me if i have a pet, cause I am spamming Blood of the master, lich reduces sac to near nothing.

healing i use for me is now Healing breeze due to the nerf on Mystic Regen, if you get stripped 12 seconds is a long damn time for a heal. plus with aura and db on, a vamp or 2 keeps you healed prety good hehe.

main AB build is like

Aura of Lich, Proficies eilte
Infusse conditions,
Dark bond, only like 3 or 4 points for liek 30-40 seconds
Blood of master. if find another MM tell him you will be spamming BoM and stay BEHIND him, so hard for you to be target, they dont go for u if ur not hitting them, in general hehe. I can heal like 30 Minnions for a loss of 50 health, hehe a few hits from a vamp takes care of that or have HB on and spamm that 122 heal all day, well 10 or 15 seconds anyway. no area heals.
reast are pets
toss in verettas aura if u want, see a MM, take his golem, and keep it alive forever.

trick is u are NOT a fighter, so dont get in a group hehe, a Assasin will kill u in 2 seconds flat. I dont know what it is, but they LOVE ME. watch out for Backfire, worse than SS ever was, well for a single person anyway. find a messmer with it and is like 140 damage.

hehe print that off and have fun. have questions look me up

Razor of Death is my Main name

Light Of Deldrimor · May 02, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

This is what i use and it is quite good, it consists of Proph and Faction Skills.

[Animate Flesh Golem][Animate Bone Horror][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Vampiric Horror][Blood Of The Master][Dark Bond][Karei's Healing Circle][Optional]

Optional can be a rez or taste of death to heal yourself along with KHC.
Use dark bond before you aggro an enemy.

haha my bad [Animate Shambling Horror] is nf you can change that to [Animate Bone Fiend] it will work as good.
four animates arent need so this will work fine too [Death Nova], use it if you notice if any minions in battle are about to die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

**bah another post comes in while I was finishing mine...btw Light of Delrimor, waaaayy to many summon skills on that bar. And honestly...[skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill] may look cool but ...pretty much blows...not to be all snotty or anything, just offering advice.**

he is right so this was my other option

[Aura Of The Lich][Animate Vampiric Horror][Animate Bone Horror][Blood Of The Master][Dark Bond][Karei's Healing Circle][Death Nova][Infuse Condition]or[Barbs]or[Rebirth]

nebuchanezzar · May 02, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

^ has good suggestions.
[skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill] is in Prophecies at Ring of Fire I think. Most would agree it is the best for a pure MM whereas(as said by Zling) [skill]Jagged Bones[/skill] is better for minion bombers.
[skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill] are your staples as a true MM. [skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill] is often added also for some melee blockage. After AotL I would recommend [skill]Order of Undeath[/skill], but I think that is capped later in NF also...could be wrong though as it's been ages since I capped that.
*while previewing to make sure my skill tags came up Queen has posted and I also echo some of his/her statements, especially that part of staying well back as a true MM, you do NOT want to be targeted*
I am not so fond of [skill]Infuse Condition[/skill] or [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] as I once was. The first is useful if you are running [skill]Foul Feast[/skill] *the tag is not updated for it* imo and the latter should not be needed if you are staying back well enough.
If you can, have a curses necro with you also to apply such effects as [skill]Barbs[/skill][skill]Mark of Pain[/skill]and [skill]Weaken Armor[/skill](always have a curses necro bring [skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill] but that is not MM specific).
Since you only really need 3-4 slots to fill your role as a dedicated MM the biggest question is really what to do with the other slots. Whether you decide to take care of your heals yourself or allow someone else to do it is one question to answer.
Good luck and HF, whatever you decide to go with.

**bah another post comes in while I was finishing mine...btw Light of Delrimor, waaaayy to many summon skills on that bar. And honestly...[skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill] may look cool but ...pretty much blows...not to be all snotty or anything, just offering advice.**

Terrokian · May 02, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

[build=Livia;OAZCUsxzaYKcUxDpB1QVFZA]

Gear is a 20/20 Undead Death Scepter and a 20/20 Undead Death Focus.Armor consists of Bloodstained insignia and +3 Death rune in helm,Radiant insignia +1 Soul Reaping rune in chest,Survivor insignia Attunement rune in gloves,Radiant insignia Attunement rune in legs,and finally Survivor insignia Attunement rune in boots.

She gets 10 minions and has the ability to support them with her own condition causing spells.Works wonders with an SS/Curse Necro or with an Epidemic Ranger.

I'm sure someone can point something out here and say"You can do better.",but I have beaten EotN and am working on F and am having a lot of success with her.Make of it what you will.

minaau · May 02, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I suggest no more than 2-3 animates on your bar
reccommend [animate bone horror] and [animate bone fiend]
[aura of the lich] goes well with [dark bond]
and of course always take [blood of the master]
[signet of lost souls] for e-management
[karei's healing circle] for more healing of minions
and for a bit of extra damage take [deathly swarm]

Kronos Ledaloth · May 02, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

i sometimes use taint flesh as elite

is very usefull against meelee

Chthon · May 02, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

1. Like Zling said, Jagged Bones is only for Minion Bombers. It's a terrible skill for Minion Masters.

2. The hero AI is excellently suited for minion bombing. It is absolutely terrible at minion mastery.

3. Just go with a normal MB build without JB for now. It's not optimal, but it's the best you can do:
Core skills: [animate bone minions]+[death nova]+EITHER [taste of death] OR [putrid flesh] + [Jagged Bones] (but you don't have that).
Useful, Non-Essential Skills: [Infuse Condition]+[Foul Feast] (note that the tooltip's data is old and Foul Feast is now a condition draw), [Well of Suffering], [Putrid Bile], Monk Prot skills (a la Sabway), Rez.

System_Crush · May 03, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

I'm biased on how well heroes use [[Aura of the Lich] its real use is combined with [[Masochism] for spamming [[Blood of the Master] really fast so minions never die no matter how much damage they take.
Heroes maintain everything alright, though I just get the impression they either want to wand stuff to death(on guard) or just lazy around(on passive) instead of hit BotM on recharge.

But yea, combine it with 2 [[Animate Bone Horror] and [[Animate Vampiric horror] or [[Animate Shambling Horror]
and [[Infuse Condition] + [[Foul Feast] and you get excellent minion wall build.

viper11025 · May 03, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

It's called tainted flesh.

Cathode_Reborn · May 03, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

[skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill]

Use Bone Horrors as your primary minions. AotL will let the hero spam BotM and barely sac at all. Provides abit more defense than a typical bomber build that uses the lower level minions.

Heroes are decent with [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill] - they'll only cast it on stuff with really low hp. You can use it to recharge stuff like Shambling Horror. I think heroes might wait abit too long to use Promise though and the target might end up dying before it's even cast.

Coloneh · May 03, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

heroes cant use anything other than JB. just trap the ziashen for 10 minutes and use good skills.

Super Igor · May 03, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Not true, at all.

Surely JB is probably the best choice there is for Minion Bomber, but if we are talking standard MM I would say you should consider using something like OoU which heroes use quite decently or the "classic" Flesh Golem because it look cool.

Another variant would be using AotL, which is good, heroes do cast it before battle and in it every time, so it is decent. They wont cast it out of battle so if you want your hero lose less hp from BotM cast it maually which is again, not much needed.

~Super Igor

~

cellardweller · May 03, 2008, 12:23 PM // 12:23

[signet of removal][empathic removal][expel hexes]
I generally chose them over jb for pve thats difficult enough for skillchoice to matter.

Super Igor · May 03, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Empathis removal is an aweasome skill, I agree, also, jb is used so often that you get sick of using it, so sometimes you switch it out for something else.

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Without Jagged Bones, I would use something like this:

[build prof=N/Mo name="Martyr Sorrow MM" box death=12+1+3 sou=8+1 hea=10][Martyr][Animate Bone Minions][Taste of Death][Death Nova][Infuse Condition][Putrid Flesh][Dwayna's Sorrow][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Then replace Martyr with Jagged Bones once you have it, and replace Putrid Flesh with Foul Feast.

distilledwill · May 08, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Without Jagged Bones, I would use something like this:

[build prof=N/Mo name="Martyr Sorrow MM" box death=12+1+3 sou=8+1 hea=10][Martyr][Animate Bone Minions][Taste of Death][Death Nova][Infuse Condition][Putrid Flesh][Dwayna's Sorrow][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Then replace Martyr with Jagged Bones once you have it, and replace Putrid Flesh with Foul Feast.

Hey Darkspirit, Ive always wanted to try Dwayna's Sorrow on a MM, so I tried it whilst vanquishing in Shing Jea today. Im afraid I didnt see Olias cast it, not even once. Its not that he doesnt know how to use it, he just doesnt use it at all! Its a real shame as it could be a very powerful minion bomber skill. Microing it is ok, but its a bit of a nuisance. I was using a build like this:

[build prof=N/Mo name="Jagged MM" box death=12+1+3 sou=8+1 hea=10][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Blood Of The Master][Death Nova][Infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Dwayna's Sorrow][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Sorry to OP for this little tangent, just thought I'd let it be known.

Id agree with almost all of the above statements. Other than Jagged my order of preference would be:
[Icy Veins]-->[Aura Of The Lich]-->[Order of Undeath]-->[Tainted Flesh]-->[Virulence]-->[Empathic Removal]-->[Signet Of Removal]

I wouldnt like to take Martyr over Foul Feast as it takes up an elite slot, plus foul feast is like a little self heal/condition removal/energy management.

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Hey Darkspirit, Ive always wanted to try Dwayna's Sorrow on a MM, so I tried it whilst vanquishing in Shing Jea today. Im afraid I didnt see Olias cast it, not even once. Its not that he doesnt know how to use it, he just doesnt use it at all! Its a real shame as it could be a very powerful minion bomber skill. Microing it is ok, but its a bit of a nuisance.

You may need to micro alittle but it is AoE and it lasts 30s.

Quote:

I wouldnt like to take Martyr over Foul Feast as it takes up an elite slot, plus foul feast is like a little self heal/condition removal/energy management.

There are pros and cons when comparing Martyr to Foul Feast. There are good reasons why Martyr is worth its elite status. Martyr removes conditions from the party much faster than Foul Feast. If your party is suffering from an AoE condition like disease, or AoE burning from SF/RI, multi cripple from dervish, multi blind, etc. Martyr would clear ALL conditions from the entire party with one cast while Foul Feast has to do it one party member at a time and the hero doesn't always cast Foul Feast to remove blind from your physical attackers just when you need him to, since he does not always prioritise correctly.

As to energy management from Foul Feast, an Animate bone minions (2 minions/corpse) MM with Signet of Lost Soul should have enough energy management already.

distilledwill · May 08, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

^all very true. However, I usually run the Jagged MM with a Curser with Pure Was' to deal with party wide conditions. (I know the condition removal isnt as frequent or far reaching, but it does its job nicely)

Incidently:

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Update

* Improved Hero AI for using the Monk skill Dwayna’s Sorrow.

XD who says Anet doesnt pay attention to current discourse!?